Krooninen väsymysoireyhtymä

Keskustelua kroonisesta väsymysoireyhtymästä ja siihen liittyvistä aiheista
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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 07:04 
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Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:03
Posts: 13
Minulla ei myöskään mielestäni ole minkäänlaisia kognitiivisia ongelmia, muisti toimii kuten ennen enkä ole ainakaan huomannut mitään erityistä laskua ajattelukyvyssäni. Tuolla Cfs:n kriteereissä mainittiin kognitiiviset ongelmat. Toisaalta tuo lasko ihmetyttää :?


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 07:16 
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Location: Amsterdam, Hollanti
Joillain potilailla ei ole juurikaan kognitiivisia ongelmia. Minulla ne alkoivat varsinaisesti vasta sairastettuani lähes 4 vuotta. Laskon outo tippuminen sopisi kyllä hyvin CFS:ään.

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CFS 8/2000, LDN 3/2007, panhypopit 11/2011, hypoglykemia, gastropareesi. Pirasetaami, nimodipiini, Medrol, T3/T4, EST/PROG, staph vax, koukkumadot, Q10, ALA, bromelaiini, I3C, GTF, D/E/K2, Mg, Zn, M-B12, MTHF... Blogi


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 03:19 
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 06:37
Posts: 815
MCAS ei ole vielä virallinen diagnoosi. Minä sain kroonisen urtikarian diagnoosin TAYSista allergiakeskuksesta, jossa olin tutkittavana vaikeiden ruokayliherkkyyksien vuoksi erikoislääkärin lähetteellä.

Minulla on myös ollut lisälyöntejä ihan teini-ikäisestä asti. Samoin rytmihäiriöitä tulee ajoittain. Syön niihin tarvittaessa beetasalpaajaa.

Tuo laskon tippuminen sinulla voisi kyllä viitata CFS:n suuntaan, kuten Maija tuossa yllä sanoikin.

Onko sinulla heikko rasituksesta palautuminen, joka on CFS:ssä tyypillistä? Siis rasitustestissä suoriutuminen 24 ja 48 tunnin kohdalla laskee selvästi? Minultahan tuo oire puuttuu ja se lienee aika keskeinen CFS:n diagnosoinissa. Testistä löytyy tietoa mm. mmjanin tekemästä SEID-oppaasta täältä: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1978&hilit=seid


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:29 
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Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:03
Posts: 13
Kiitos vastauksistanne. Tuo linkki oli tosi hyödyllinen. En osaa sanoa rasituksensietokyvystä mitään, minulle ei ole tehty mitään rasitustestejä. Alan nyt vasta tätä vyyhtiä selvittämään, hieman ahdistavaa kun oireet sopivat niin moneen :shock:.
Omiin havaintoihin pohjaten normaali liikunta ei pahenna oloani. Pystyn käymään esim. 45 min juoksulenkeillä, ja toissapäivänä esim. tein tunnin astangatreenin ja sen jälkeen juoksin 3 h 2-vuotiaan perässä hop lopissa. Oloni ei muuttunut viiveelläkään huonoon suuntaan. Toki en tiedä mitä tapahtuisi, jos tekisin vaikka kahden tunnin rääkkitreenin kovalla sykkeellä.


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 08:42 
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 06:37
Posts: 815
En minäkään ole noita palautumisia millään kahden tunnin rääkkitreenillä mitannut. Ihan vaan kuntopyörällä ajamista oli testeissä, ja itse olen lisäksi havainnoinut juuri noilla kävelylenkeillä tms. Minulla ei myöskään normaali liikunta ole pahentanut oloa koko aikana eikä palautuminen ole heikentynyt, ja tätä minulla pidettiin tärkeimpänä tekijänä, joka puhuu CFS:ää vastaan. Minulla esiintyy kyllä yhtäkkisiä väsähtämisiä kesken milloin minkäkin puuhan, mutta ne eivät oikein noudata mitään säännönmukaisuutta. Ei niistä nyt sen enempää.

Ja toki sinulla voi olla CFS ja lisäksi joku muu sairaus, eihän ne sulje toisiaan pois. Toivottavasti kuitenkin selviäisi joku yksi järkevä syy oireille. Minulla se oli tuo MCAS ja isompana tekijänä Essure. Foorumilla on myös mm. dysautonomiasta kärsiviä, siihenkin liittyy kaikkia hankalia oireita. Suurimmalla osalla täällä kyllä on CFS-diagnoosi (kai?), minä olen siinä vähän poikkeus.


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:33 
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Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:03
Posts: 13
Tilasin 24 h sylkitestin ja tulokset vuorokausimittauksessa olivat seuraavat:
Klo 8: 4,5 ng/ml
Klo 12: 2,6
Klo 17: 1,4
Klo 22:0,4
Testissä olevien käyrien mukaan arvot ovat juuri ja juuri viitteiden mukaisilla alakäyrillä. Voikohan minulla olla tästä huolimatta lisämunuaisten uupumus, ts.ovatkohan nuo viitteet kuinka tulkinnanvaraisia?
Samalla mitattiin Dhea, se taas oli yli yläkäyrien eli todella korkealla tasolla.


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:53 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 08:54
Posts: 6152
Location: Amsterdam, Hollanti
En ole perehtynyt sylkitestin viitearvoihin, mutta normaalissa aamukortisoliverikokeessa viitearvot ovat liian lepsut. Kortisolihan on stressihormoni ja sairastaminen on fysiologista stressiä, eli jos elimistössä on vikana mitään muutakin kuin lisämunuaisen vajaatoiminta, "normaalit" arvot eivät enää välttämättä riitä.

Voisikohan koholla oleva DHEA viitata munasarjojen monirakkulaoireyhtymään (PCOS), onko sinulla siihen viittaavia oireita?

_________________
CFS 8/2000, LDN 3/2007, panhypopit 11/2011, hypoglykemia, gastropareesi. Pirasetaami, nimodipiini, Medrol, T3/T4, EST/PROG, staph vax, koukkumadot, Q10, ALA, bromelaiini, I3C, GTF, D/E/K2, Mg, Zn, M-B12, MTHF... Blogi


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:29 
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Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:03
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Minulla ei mielestäni ole mitään PCOS:iin viittaavia oireita. Luulen, että se ei todennäköisesti ole kyseessä. Lueskelin tuolta kilpirauhasliiton sivuilta, että sylkitestin viitearvot ovat niin ikään liian lepsut, eli arvojen tulisi olla ylä-tai vähintään keskikäyrällä. Näin ollen kyseessä voisi olla jonkinasteinen lisämunuaisten uupumus ainakin. Pitänee yrittää konsultoida jotakin lääkäriä, joka osaisi noista raja-arvoista sanoa


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 01:41 
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 05:54
Posts: 1058
Location: Etelä-Savo/Uusimaa
Viitearvot:

Naiset: 4.0 - 9.0 µmol/l
postmenopaussi 0.3 - 4.0 µmol/l

Lapset:
vastasyntyneet: 4.3 - 9.5 µmol/l
ennen puberteettia: 0.3 - 1.6 µmol/l

Miehet, yli 18v: 5.2 - 9.0 µmol/l

Tärkeimmät lisämunuaisperäiset androgeenit ovat dehydroepiandrosteroni (DHEA) ja sen sulfaattikonjugaatti (DHEAS). Ne ovat heikkotehoisia ja toimivat naisilla lähinnä esihormoneina testosteronin muodostumisessa. Pieniä määriä DHEA:ta erittyy myös munasarjoista ja kiveksistä, mutta DHEAS heijastaa pääasiallisesti lisämunuaisten androgeenituotantoa. DHEAS:lla on kortisolintapainen vuorokausivaihtelu, mutta erot aamu- ja ilta-arvojen välillä ovat vain n. 20 %. DHEA:lla vaihtelu on suurempi.

Naisilla DHEA ja DHEAS vastaavat huomattavasta androgeenivaikutuksesta ja kohonnut DHEAS on merkki lisämunuaisperäisestä hyperandrogenismista. Erittäin korkeat DHEAS-pitoisuudet viittaavat lisämunuaiskasvaimeen. Lisämunuaisperäisessä hyperandrogenismissa DHEAS on selvästi kohonnut, mutta hyperandrogenismi on harvoin puhtaasti lisämunuaisperäinen. Huomattavan korkea DHEAS voi johtua lisämunuaisen entsyymipuutoksista, mikä on selvitettävä määrittämällä kohonnut seerumin 17-hydroksiprogesteroni (21- hydroksylaasin puutos) tai kohonneet DHEA-, pregnenoloni-, 17-hydroksipregnenoloni- ja alentuneet androsteenidioni- ja 17-hydroksiprogesteronipitoisuudet (3beeta- hydroksisteroididehydrogenaasi).

https://huslab.fi/ohjekirja/3166.html


Naisilla kohonneita S-DHEA-pitoisuuksia nähdään lisämunuaisperäisessä hyperandrogenismissa. Silloin usein myös S-Androstendioni ja S-DHEA-S ovat koholla. Kohonneita S-DHEA-arvoja nähdään myös PCO-syndroomassa. Hyvin korkea S-DHEA-pitoisuus voi viitata lisämunuaisen kasvaimeen.
https://vita.fi/laboratoriokasikirja/tutkimus/2032


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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 09:54 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 09:39
Posts: 91
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 Post subject: Re: Ahdistus, eds vai cfs?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 09:40 
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