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 Post subject: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 02:09 
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 01:10
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Hi friends, I know it is so annoying when some person just rocks up and starts speaking English but my Finnish is just too infantile to try and do that, im so sorry!
I just couldnt pass up the opportunity to ask some questions from you guys who have actually navigated this countrys health system! It is doing my head in! I was so shocked and amazed when I found Maijas website and already have a whole list of things to bring up with my doctor.

A lil about me; im from Australia, I came to Finland for the first time in 2011 as a Rotary Exchange Student and fell in love with a Finnish dude. Fast foward a bit, in May 2015 I came here on a working holiday visa and against our previous plan, I ended up staying! Husband got a job and we moved in together and I finished my degree online.

In July 2015, we took a 2 week trip to Turkey and Greece and I ended up being violently ill just a few days in. Tonsillitis was the diagnosis, I somehow got to an emergency room and got antibiotics which did clear it up. Just a week later I had a regular cold and absolutely shot my ears as I came home on the plane.
I had cold after cold for months until in about November, I started noticing more symptoms, the fatigue was the first, I couldnt get through the day without a nap. More and more I needed to set an alarm just so i would wake up before midday, and could easily sleep through till 2 or 3. Nausea was the other key factor, it was GERD like in feeling and had awful accompanying vertigo. Headaches were a daily thing, constant sinus pressure was my life. My allergies became insane, I couldnt even be 2 metres from a cat whereas previously some petting and then washing my hands was fine.

I went to a doctor. EEG clear, I have a heart murmur diagnosed when I was 7. Bloods were repeated as I had high leukocytes. Likely because I was getting colds every month and my allergies were nuts.
Everything was explained away as being because I was in a new country, the darkness is making you tired etc etc.

I got married Jan 2016 and my entire wedding party came down with influenza A. I was basically bedbound for a whole month, what a honeymoon! All my residual symptoms after that point just became because I had the flu, because I was a newlywed and its stressful. I became a resident in 2015 and had all these other things to take off, I needed to set up my regular echos, I needed new birth control, I started a part time job (3 hours a week) etc etc. But I still knew something was wrong. I saw the doctor again and we decided to switch one of my medications to see if was causing the fatigue. She did more thyroid tests. We switched the pills and i reported that it helped! but then I thought back 12 months and realized how much I had learned to self handicap, never went to the shops without my husband to carry the bags back, would never do shopping on a day I wanted to cook. Never cooked or did anything on a work day, etc. I went back and asked for more tests, they gave me a panadol and antihistamine prescription and did basic bloods again.

In october 2017, I took a real downward turn. despite all of my daily coping strategies, I was getting moments of fatigue after exertion that were absolutely crippling. Just the 400m walk to the market and back and I would be physically unable to move for up to 30 mins. And the migraines began, every week, with auras, I thought I was losing my sight! I had never had a migraine before in my life. I was sleeping between 12 and 14 hours every night. My digestive system was a mess! My sinuses were chronically swollen and sometimes the internal pressure from them made me want to scream it was that intense. My tonsils also remained swollen since that holiday and constantly swelled further and produced putrid 'stones.' My allergies continued to plague me every day and I became so sensitive to my triggers like grass and cigarette. I constantly had hives that I could never even determine the cause of because everything gave me hives! I went back to the doctors again, I finally got someone a little more proactive and she sent me to have a brain MRI and more blood including borrelias and a dexamethasone suppression test with a referral to see an endocrinologist.

That refferal was just about 6 weeks ago. The endo said there was no signs of cushings and that she believes I have CFS, she looked it up on wikipedia right there in front of me and told me to read it. lol. then she said that dont worry because it will go away eventually. I cried then and there. She did give me a script for migraine pills.

It took me ages to see my home center after this but I finally did this week and well, she said that 'well this CFS is a very new diagnosis in Finland' huh okay. She did some kind of fatigue questionnaire but it was more like are you going to fall asleep at any second? Which is just not the kind of exhaustion im experiencing! She was very interested in my mental health which didnt feel a good sign. I had depression as a teen and I know I am not depressed. I had some reactive anxiety after witnessing a terrible car accident but it is totally controlled by brintellix and I havent had any symptoms of anxiety since 2015.
She said she will send me for a sleep study, which i wont even get the letter for till SEPTEMBER!? and that she will speak to a neurologist. She said finns have some saying about taking the long route around or something and I just wanted to scream to her that its been over 2 bloody years!!!! She sent for vit d numbers too, which I checked from omakanta and they are 54. I take 50ug every day. The only thing outside of normal in my blood is that my leukocytes and thrombocytes and almost always high. docs say its imflammatory, which with my allergies and chronis sinusitus makes sense but hey doc, why do I have such allergies and sinusitis? :roll:

Me and my husband have had to do so much chasing of appointments and refferals. My home hospital is utterly hopeless and they have messed things up repeatedly and they only got solved because I made my husband call them all the time! I just feel so utterly let down by the medical care im getting. Ive been sick for so long and it feels like theres no end in site, how long can they keep sending me for tests!
My husband fears needles and hospitals and has avoided them his whole life so system wise he has no idea. I feel like im totally flying blind, which is fun when youre sick and even more fun it seems when youre sick with something so frustrating and misunderstood as cfs!

My questions: how do I get my doc to treat my symptoms? I need some relief, some of my life back! I will go to a hundred more tests but treat me!!
Any private recommendations in the north? Lucky me I live in a town of 2500 but im an hour from Oulu and its where im sent to see specialists.

My mother keeps telling me to just come home and get care there and shes got a bloody point, which I hate because I would have to do it without my husband. We do plan to immigrate eventually but we just dont have the money to do it now, especially since I cant work at all! I need some hope that being here in Finland is not going to reduce me to nothing.

If you made it this far, kiitos mate! Did not mean to give you all a novel to read but it can feel good to vent a bit I guess!


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 07:51 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 08:54
Posts: 6152
Location: Amsterdam, Hollanti
Welcome to the forum! Unfortunately the state of CFS treatment in Finland is really poor and has only got worse recently, when the only real expert lost his license, the second best doctor is at a risk of losing his license, and as a result many doctors fear they will end up in trouble if they treat CFS. :-/ And Finnish healthcare in general is abominable, including huge delays... As you've noticed.

And Northern Finland isn't making things any easier. There was a knowledgeable doctor in Oulu once, like 15 years ago, but she switched careers. I'm not aware of anyone in the area. Lääkärikeskus Lupaus in Kuopio would probably be your best bet. Not very close, I'm afraid, but at least it's not Southern Finland...

Some questions:

- So which meds are you currently on, including BC and any sinus sprays?

- Do you have any idea which antibiotics you were prescribed back then? If you don't know the name, any clues (like "they told me to avoid the sun with the pills")?

- What is the exact diagnosis of your heart problem? Is it valvular?

- How are your migraines at the moment?

- I assume your thyroid levels have been checked? Thyroid issues wouldn't explain all of your symptoms, but many people have them, too.

- Do you have hypermobile joints? Please look it up, you can be hypermobile without knowing it! I also recommend looking up Ehlers-Danlos syndrome to see if it seems to match.

You should also look up MCAS, mast cell activation syndrome, which is probably the cause of your allergy hell, and can cause seemingly non-allergic symptoms as well. Bad news: no one in Finland knows anything about it, even though it's extremely common. Good news: it's often treatable with supplements and OTC meds, e.g. large doses of antihistamines (e.g. 2 x 2 a day when the pack says 1x day), H2 antagonists like ranitidine, vitamin C and some flavonoids.

You should get tested for IgG subclasses (not just total IgG) and IgE levels, but it's very hard to get IgG subclasses tested. But clearly there's some immune system shenanigans going on and an IgG subclass deficiency could well explain it.

_________________
CFS 8/2000, LDN 3/2007, panhypopit 11/2011, hypoglykemia, gastropareesi. Pirasetaami, nimodipiini, Medrol, T3/T4, EST/PROG, staph vax, koukkumadot, Q10, ALA, bromelaiini, I3C, GTF, D/E/K2, Mg, Zn, M-B12, MTHF... Blogi


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:01 
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 01:10
Posts: 5
Thanks for your reply Maija, I really appreciate it!

Wow thats so terrible to hear about those doctors, is it because of prescription issues that they lost their registration? I saw something and LDN being a bit of an iffy one for doctors here, glad I didnt bring it up with my doc before I saw this forum and saw the difficulty it seems to elicit!

Im south of Oulu so Kuopio is not all that much further so I will look into that clinic, thank you! My husband and I have both agreed we have to start being way more active than just waiting for them to send me places because its just getting ridiculous. Luckily I get some unemployment so I can blow that all on doctors.

Daily I brintellix 10mg, TELFAST 120 mg, symbicort 200 x 4, vit d and melatonin, I think its 1.9, its from the supermarket.
They gave me DUACT to take on bad allergy days but really put the fear of god in me about over using it so I try to take in max twice a week or so.
RIZATRIPTAN is what I was given for my migraines.
ESOMEPRAZOL for GERD, maybe 3/4 times per week ill take this, but ive gotten better at avoiding triggers.
They gave me NASONEX but I only used it for like a week as I felt it only helped when I has an active infection and not for the allergy inflammation or for the sinus pressure.
I have mirena since July 2016. Its been checked and its placement is fine. I had some kind of infection that created some bleeding 6 months after that but I was virtually symptomless besides the bleeding and antibiotics stopped the bleeding.
I take a lot of pain meds too but just the vanilla ones like paracetamol and ibuprofen. I do have a little bit of codeine flu tablets if I get in total agony but I work pretty hard at avoiding situations that will make me like that.

No idea what antibiotic I got, however, with some digging I might be able to find the insurance report I made for the visit and it might have it. It wasnt penicillin at least, I had a reaction as a baby so I dont use it. I dont believe sun was mentioned though because I was deep in Turkish summer so I think I would have remembered that haha, i certainly got a lot of sun the weeks after that.

Its a mitral valve prolapse. It was dx in 2003, it was mild then but ive upgraded to moderate in the last few years. I was immensely worried it was the cause of all these issues and the hospital doing my echo gave me a total run around about getting an appointment but after the 5 minute echo she said it was fine, and would see me in 2 years. Even gave me a blessing to just go off and have babies, which my doc back home was like pls come see us before you do that and we want to see you every year. A little bitter maybe...

Migraines are about every week to a fortnight during some spells, to every month during nicer times. The rizatriptan definitely worked for me. Ive taken 4 now since I had my specialist on the 6th of April. I have aura and nausea.

Yes they did my thyroid twice I think.
19.11.2015 08:45 S -TSH 2.72 mU/l
5.4.2017 08:27 P -TSH 2.91 mU/l

Ive just recently completed a long journey to find out the genetic cause of a few issues in my family in order to avoid passing them to my kids and EDS was mentioned a few times because my sister, in particular, is very flexible and I had flex injuries as a kid but my geneticist felt we didnt fit into any of those categories so I dont believe I have EDS. Most of my flexibility disappeared with puberty and my skin tightened up. I bruise fairly easily, and more so now than before all these symptoms certainly. Do you think its worth bringing up again? btw genetically, I have hearing loss and an increased chance for cardiomyopathy.

I have heard of MCA as a friend has it to a very alarming degree. Ive never had an anaphylactic shock so I thought I was discluded there but it would really explain a lot if there is degrees of this! I mostly get hives and asthma aggravation. The chest, throat lung tightening and squeeze feeling.

Is those levels something I can ask my doctor for or can I test them independently? I cant find anything on my reports that mentions IgG so I dont think that was ever tested.
Thinking of all these tests I had reminded me of one odd symptom. My veins are always non exsistent. I havent had a nurse get a lead in for blood on the first try since starting all this nonsense and previously I was fine! I also get a huge bruise all up my arm as a result! My nana laughed at me the other day when I showed her like look were the same. Shes turning 80 in a few weeks, so surely thats not normal for me, only 23!?!?


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:20 
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 08:54
Posts: 6152
Location: Amsterdam, Hollanti
Olli Polo lost his license for prescribing a variety of meds and "diagnosing too many cases of CFS", Ville Pöntynen at Lupaus is at risk for prescribing several meds, mostly hormones. Several doctors have also lost their license for prescribing non-traditional thyroid hormones.

Your GERD could be eosinophilic esophagitis, if it seems connected to allergies. Would be good if you could get montelukast, an oral Rx asthma med to try. It's very benign so shouldn't be impossible. Did you try nasal sodium cromoglicate?

I thought you'd say mitral valve prolapse. I have it too (I never got any controls, was promised one but it never materialized...), but most likely mine was caused/triggered by CFS. It's a common comorbidity of EDS and I do think you almost certainly have EDS, everything you say matches. It's common to get less flexible with age and CFS can also tighten the muscles. This should be considered when making the diagnosis, e.g. if the patient is certain they used to be able to get their palms to the floor.

Your TSH strongly suggests hypothyroidism, as it is over 2. Unfortunately it can be rather hard to get treatment, since it's within the reference range.

MCAS is very common, up to several per cent of the population, and most have it mild. MCAS can also cause symptoms in pretty much any organ system and body area - migraines are a common one.

I'm not sure if IgG subclasses can be tested privately without a referral,, but I doubt it. It will likely be hard to get it tested unless you're seeing an infection specialist - I don't know why, it's a pretty common problem, but doctors think it's rare, because they never bother to test for it. :-P

It seems well possible that most of your symptoms are caused by MCAS, some by EDS and hypothyroid and I would guess the recurrent infections are from an IgG subclass deficiency, this would be a common combination. However, other immune deficiencies like complement deficiency are possible, too. For some reason even if you're born with an immune deficiency, sometimes it seems to "kick in" only as an adult.

_________________
CFS 8/2000, LDN 3/2007, panhypopit 11/2011, hypoglykemia, gastropareesi. Pirasetaami, nimodipiini, Medrol, T3/T4, EST/PROG, staph vax, koukkumadot, Q10, ALA, bromelaiini, I3C, GTF, D/E/K2, Mg, Zn, M-B12, MTHF... Blogi


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 09:33 
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Posts: 530
Hi Julia!
You mentioned your vitamin D level to be just over 50. That is way too low. Is it that low even when you take 50 micrograms vit. D a day? How long have you used vitamin D suplements? If you vitamin D level is that low even if you are using 50 micrograms a day, you should increase your dosage. The vitamin D level in your blood should be more than 100 nmol/l.

Many of us have vitamin D deficiency and some (I guess only a few) of us get lots of help from taking high dose vitamin D, such as 125 to 250 micrograms per day. I had my vitamin D levels low (28nmol/l) two years ago and since I can't use any oral medication, I am injected with vitamin D every two months. My dosage is 45 micrograms a day and my vitamin D level is 95nmol/l.

I would recommend that you double your vitamin D3 and have it measured in around November. It took almost 1,5 years until my vitamin D level stopped rising. Magnesium is needed for good vitamin D absorption, so make sure, your magnesium level is adequate. And magnesium is used to ease the symptoms of CFS so it would be a good idea to suplement with it.

So it took 1,5 years until my vitamin D level stopped rising. Some doctors say it may take even two years but you need to wait with the blood test atleast over the summer because vitamin D from the sun is messing up the test results. My vitamin D level is messured every six months by my gastroenterologist.

What is your hemoglobin and have you had your HKR (hematokriitti) tested? What was it?

Testing your sleep is a good idea if there is a reason for it. Getting an official CFS diagnosis means that all the other diseases that have similar symptoms to it has to be studied and ruled out. If you would have sleep apnea, it is easy to fix and fixing it would help a lot but you have other symptoms too, so it would not be your only diagnosis. I am not saying you have it but I have a friend who's got it diagnosed and she also has CFS.

Some of your symptoms soud like MCAS and yes, there is a degree in it. You can have the mildest symtoms caused by MCAS but some have big problems with it. I have big problems with my intolerances with calisylates, amines and other natural food chemicals but also my allergies have gone worse since I got sick with MCAS. I don't have it diagnosed though.

Two years in your condition is a long time. Many of us know what you go through. I have been sick since 2011 and the latest four years I've been so sick that I have been bed bound for about 22 hours a day. But I am still able to prepare food and walk 15 mins walk with my dog a day. My wife takes care of shopping and we have a cleaning help provided.

Unfortunately, unless you go to private specialist, it may take even seven more years to get the diagnosis for CFS.

And the best place for you is Lääkärikeskus Lupaus, as Maija said. They have a team of doctor's specialised to diseases that cause fatigue and they do diagnose CFS. I just had my first visit there three weeks ago. It will not be cheap. I sent my medical data to my doctor before hand and asked before hand to have some laboratory tests done at my local laboratory, so he prescibed some. They cost some 300 euros and the doctor was less that 400 euros.

But now I need to go to some other tests that are done in a univercity hospital so he sent me there. After a possible diagnosis from the univercity hospital, my tests and diagnosing will continue in Lupaus but my doctor said we don't need to see anymore if I am not able to travel. I can sent him e-mails and we can talk in a phone if needed. We have wrote plenty of e-mails to each others for free.

Lupaus is also that way a good clinic, that it is fast to get the doctor's appointment. There are long queues to other doctor's at South and you may be lucky to get your appointment in half a year. In Lupaus it takes about 2 to 3 weeks to get to the doctor's.

I like your country. :) I was there in 1998 and 1999 doing my work practice and graduation work for Sanitarium Health Foods, Cooranbong NSW. I miss those times.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:37 
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@Maija

Wow you gave me a lot to consider, thank you so much!
The stuff about immune deficiencies especially rang really true for me.
I went back and looked at my family history reports that my mum wrote for my gene screening and she mentions that I had Pyelonephritis, cytomegalo, recurrent ear infections and constant UTIs. She said my asthma has infective exacerbations, ill have to ask her more about it but I guess it means all these infections I got made it worse? It also said I had EBV at 15, I didnt realise this. I knew I had glandular fever but I didnt realise it was the same thing. I ended up with recurrent tonsilitis and sinusitis after that and had a fairly acute bout of reactive depression.

Ive also had 4 bacterial infections that I know of since I moved here. Plus influenza, and countless colds and sinus infections.
I think if i bring this up my doctor might send for some tests, or at least refer me somewhere so I am glad to be alerted to this avenue of investigation! Lets see where it goes.

The TSH stuff was also immensely valuable and I think it would be worth testing that again, its been a year and if its increased even more then the doctors should be more inclined to offer some treatment there. I am also am at risk for heart disease in multiple ways and this is said to be a good reason to treat these so-called borderline results of hypothyroidism so fingers crossed about that. I also have unexplained weight gain since all this started so this would fit with that symptom too.
Oh in looking for my hemocrit I found one other time they looked
2.11.2017 08:10 P -TSH 2.56 mU/l
So not a big change over that time but still above 2.

I'll have to investigate the MCAS stuff more and try and see what apteeki has to offer or what I can ask for. Ill probably be back with that but thanks for mentioning montelukast, ive taken it before when I was a kid when my asthma was atrocious so I should look into starting that again.

im still not sure about the EDS, its the flexibility thats throwing me off but I am going to bring it up. I was definitely way more flexible pre puberty and even pre cfs weight gain. I have at least 1 maybe even 2cm skin flex on my arms but my hands seem pretty normal compared to them. And my arms are flabby. I can still put my thumbs behind my hand and I have fairly motional shoulders but that feels so normal to me.

@ Essi
Thanks for that information on vit d, I had no idea, I just assumed because the range said above 50 but even following that range makes it pretty borderline!
I've taken the supplement since I moved here but there was usually about 2 months where I didnt take it in the summer and then just started back up when school started again. Should I just take multiple tabs of the 50 or should I look in apteeki about a stronger one, clueless as to whether there is a difference! I certainly feel better in the summers but I think in finland thats due to many reasons :P

I am grateful to get the sleep test, just frustrated how long it all takes. The doc is looking for apnea yes but I dont think I have any. My husband is a very light sleeper and wakes over 5 hours before I do and hes never reported hearing anything from me. Even my annoying habit of making a clicking noise with my tongue on the roof of my mouth seems to have stopped he says.

Is Hb hemoglobin?
If so
2.11.2017 08:10 B -Hb 136 g/l
2.11.2017 08:10 B -HKR 0.41
9.10.2017 07:55 B -Hb 135 g/l
9.10.2017 07:55 B -HKR 0.42
5.4.2017 08:27 B -Hb 135 g/l
5.4.2017 08:27 B -HKR 0.42
7.12.2015 08:40 B -Hb 129 g/l
7.12.2015 08:40 B -HKR 0.39

I probably missed a few but they seem pretty steady and boring yeh?

Thank you for the mini review of that clinic, the rough cost is also very helpful, will have to see if we can swing that. Luckily theres room in the budget right now because we canceled two holidays because im just too ill to go :( Good that they can flexible, I can travel okay if my husband can drive me but it would be preffered not to do it all the time!

So cool that you have been to Australia! I think every single Australian friend I know has been to Europe but I dont meet too many finns who have been to Oz! I guess not many of those aussies have been to Finland though, but im slowly changing that by inviting them all to see me.
I hope you have a restful week. I too have a dog and shes my absolute brightness on those shitty days and the reason I get out of bed and leave the house.

Thanks guys again for all the help on this. I feel really hopeful at least that I can investigate a few more things and feel a little bit more empowered and not so hopeless and doomed to my bed forever. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 09:19 
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According to the university hospital where I go to, the ideal level of vitamin D is above 75 nmol/l and it is the same all over the country. Below 50 is depletion. Duodecim, which is the recognized organization representing the best practices in the field in Finland, has published writing where it is recommended that 100 micrograms a day could bring you more benefits. They also write that some patients benefit from the levels of even 120 nmol/l.

This is an area where there are controvercies. The Finnish recommendation for foods and nutrition (I don't know it's name in English) says 10 to 20 micrograms per day would be enough. But actually it is more important to check your blood levels and make sure that vitamin D level is more than 100 nmol/l. Some suggest it should be even more, like 120 or 150 nmol/l. My goal for now is 120nmol/l. I let my doctor in Lupaus to decide the level. My vitamin D level is measured also by another measurement, which is so called active vitamin D level: D 1,25. Normally not needed.

You should buy vitamin D tablets from luontaistuote kauppa or from the internet shops. They are usually cheaper in the net. Pharmacies don't sell this strong vitamin D. Any vitamin D3 with the level of 2 x 50 micrograms or 1 x 100 micrograms is fine. Multivitamins to my knowledge contain too small amount of vitamin D. You can find also vegan vitamin D, if you like. And after six months you should have it measured from blood and according to the vitamin level adjust your dosage.

Supplementing magnesium helps your body to absorb vitamin D and making sure that the cellular level of minerals is optimal you should supplement calsium too. If you take for example 250mg magnesium you should also take 500mg calsium. That is the recommended ratio.

I asked your hb because there are conditions where it is higher or lower than normally. Also in some condition HKR is high. Yours seems fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 01:03 
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Is this life.fi a reputable place to buy? At least I have seen their brand stamp around a lot so that feels safe. It is hard to know im not being taken advantage or something when I have no experience in the country to guide me with these things. I know it sounds very basic but I appreciate the reassurance.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 03:28 
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Life.fi is trustworthy but not the cheapest. Some internet shops abroad are cheaper. Maija and others know them better than I. I use sinunapteekki.fi and when I go to the city I go to Life shop. You could see what's sold in life.fi and then try to find the same product from other internet shops for comparison. But life.fi and sinunapteekki.fi I know are reputable.


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 09:30 
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Location: Amsterdam, Hollanti
Many supplements cost a fraction of the price when ordered abroad. E.g. HealthMonthly.co.uk is rather cheap and has free postage to Finland. However, it's usually not shipped from the EU and Finnish customs has a lot of limitations on which supplements you can order. Peculiarly, some supplements can be sold in Finnish stores, but it's not allowed to order them online! So you have to check each active ingredient and sometimes even the product, as sometimes whether an ingredient is allowed depends on the dosage or what the supplement says it's for...

Unfortunately I don't know much about Finnish online stores. I've mostly ordered from Hyvinvoinnin.fi, which isn't particularly cheap, but they often have stuff on sale. I've never had a problem with my many orders. Fitnesstukku.fi has some supplements for quite cheap, I ordered once and it took a while because they ship from Sweden, but other than that, no complaints.

I would not recommend supplementing calcium. For many people with CFS it causes problems, because it "opposes" magnesium, which we already have trouble getting. For example I can't take any supplemental calcium no matter how much supplemental magnesium I take, or I get muscle pain. Which is funny, because calcium traditionally was used as a placebo control in medical studies, as it was considered "inert".

With magnesium it's important to get a good form, pretty much anything is better than magnesium oxide.

Not everyone with EDS is super flexible and your skin doesn't have to be stretchy. Usually there is something unusual in the skin, but e.g. paleness, weird wound healing and easy bruising are more common.

_________________
CFS 8/2000, LDN 3/2007, panhypopit 11/2011, hypoglykemia, gastropareesi. Pirasetaami, nimodipiini, Medrol, T3/T4, EST/PROG, staph vax, koukkumadot, Q10, ALA, bromelaiini, I3C, GTF, D/E/K2, Mg, Zn, M-B12, MTHF... Blogi


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:28 
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Thanks for links about shops, ill check a few out. The price difference seems fairly minimal. Unfortunately, HealthMonthly.co.uk dont ship to Finland at all anymore. Those custom issues must have gotten too annoying to deal with.

Ill avoid oxide form thank you, luckily most of these supplements are just borrowed words so I can use their websites quite easily!! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 04:56 
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https://wheretobuystampsnearonline.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Diagnosed by specialist but home doc hesitant to confirm.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 09:40 
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